HIV/AIDS Skepticism

Pointing to evidence that HIV is not the necessary and sufficient cause of AIDS

“HIV” and illness: Which comes first?

Posted by Henry Bauer on 2009/07/23

According to HIV/AIDS theory, “HIV” — whatever it is that is detected by “HIV” tests — precedes damage to the immune system and consequent illness.

Rethinkers and Skeptics, however, claim the opposite:
According to the Perth Group, “HIV-positive” is merely a symptom of oxidative stress.
According to Duesberg, the presence of “HIV” indicates a condition by which “HIV” is generated as a harmless “passenger” side-effect.
A comparison of “HIV-positive” frequency across population sub-groups indicates that the general state of health or fitness correlates with the tendency to test “HIV-positive”
(The Origin, Persistence and Failings of HIV/AIDS Theory, Figure 22, p. 83)

Specific observations that support the Rethinker view include:
Flu vaccination can lead to a positive “HIV” test
Anti-tetanus likewise
and more such instances in Christine Johnson’s classic enumeration.

A recent article not only adds further confirmation to the Rethinker case, it lends considerable specific support to Tony Lance’s hypothesis that intestinal dysbiosis can lead to testing “HIV-positive”, to dysfunction of the immune system, and to the fungal infections that were the first opportunistic infections described as “AIDS”:
Melinda Wenner, “A cultured response to HIV”, Nature Medicine, 15 (2009) 594-7.

A summary of that article is on-line at TheBody. Have a look at Liang’s comment: “I was very prone to diarrhea and gum infection before being hiv positive.”

In the Nature Medicine article, there’s something similar:
“’It’s almost like the gut is a magnet for the virus early on. [It] becomes compromised in weeks,’ says Bill Critchfield, a postdoctoral fellow at the University of California–Davis.”
A diagnosis of “HIV-positive” will typically follow some signs of illness that led to a doctor’s visit. However, there will rarely or never be any prior knowledge of the condition of the gut. According to the orthodoxy, “HIV” does its work very slowly, not “within weeks”. Ergo: this too is eminently consistent with the hypothesis that damage to the intestinal flora precedes testing “HIV-positive”.
The mainstream has increasingly acknowledged the relation between gut and “HIV”, without yet realizing that this supports the dysbiosis hypothesis and not the HIV/AIDS one.
It’s also worth noting that CD4 counts in the blood continue to be cited by mainstream researchers even as they begin to glimpse that it’s the gut where the action is. As Juliane Sacher (among others) has pointed out, immune-system cells move around the body according to where they’re needed, and the level in the blood cannot be taken as an indication of depletion or increase overall.

Note, too, that when Western sources advocate a natural — dare I say naturopathic? — treatment for “HIV”, in this case probiotic yogurt, it isn’t immediately greeted with cries of “pseudo-science”. That’s reserved for non-Westerners who make similar suggestions and for individuals like Matthias Rath, MD, one-time research colleague of Linus Pauling.

10 Responses to ““HIV” and illness: Which comes first?”

  1. mo79uk said

    With diarrhoea being not uncommon in Africa and deprived parts of South Asia – another HIV ‘hot bed’ – this makes a lot of sense. And it has been heavily argued that malnourishment, either by gut malfunction or lack of food, is the cause of testing HIV positive and possibly dying.

    Perhaps AIDS related anorexia could be properly thought of as anorexia related AIDS? The gaunt, ill stereotype of both the anorexic and the AIDS sufferer is visually dissimilar.

    And then, of course, such recreational drugs like cocaine are appetite suppresants which undoubtedly contribute to the wastage of heavy addicts.

    I think it would be actually quite amusing if supermarket probiotic products were the key between a positive or negative test result.

    • Philip said

      It is also known that intestinal parasite secrete immune modulating (dare I say suppressing?) substances so as to remain in the gut – as mentioned in the pilot episode of House,MD.

      • SkepticThough said

        Oh Philip, has it really come to this, quoting medical jargon from TeeVEE shows? Oh Dear!

  2. Philip said


    Heh, I was hardly quoting. I only said that House mentioned it. Also, anyone who has heard me teach knows I throw in a quote from some obscure anime or superhero movie or something every few minutes or so…

  3. Cytotalker said

    Opportunistic infections do increase surrogate markers for viremia and activation as a result of increased inflammatory cytokine production, notably TNF-a, yet the mainstream has insisted on the dogma of viremia leading to activation, which just is not the case in the absence of bacterial endotoxin from the gut or due to other infections.

    Intestinal dysbiosis, accompanied by leaking endotoxin, does explain the systemic inflammatory state in “classical” AIDS. HIV markers then exceed measurement thresholds as TNF-a increases as a result of chronic gut leakiness of endotoxin. However, these markers can also exceed the medically established threshold due to a transient infection or other stressors.

  4. Suprising. I had chronic vomiting and water stools alternatinG with serious constipation , and I also think I have very low / high acid levels in the body. Around the ulcer area my stomach would swell like it will blast and this condition was the only reason I went for the HIV test in 2001 May 27.I used all medications for H.Pylori bacteria since it was identified, the best there was to treat the problem and nothing worked. I never lost weight or showed signs of dehydration because after very stool or vomitting I’d drink more water and supplement with some hydration salts. That has been my intervention instead of taking an antiacid & loperamade tablets they gave me. I now know I must drink water at last 2 glasses 1hr / 30 min before I have a meal and wait 2 hrs after the meal to take water. Soda’s were my worst enemy and still are, yours too.
    I continued vomiting, watery stools, a blotting stomach, i had it with all the up and down trips to the doctor day and night for over 12 months.I had to do something for myself, since all health proffessionals where hitting a dead ends, BUT STILL PUMPIN ME UP WITH THE VERY WORST OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE USELESS ( EXCEPT THEY NEARLY POISONED MY LIVER) DRUGS. For me personally, there are no dead ends, that how I have always been, there is something good in very sirtuation, regardless of how bad it looks on facevalue.
    I researched and researched in libraries, since I DID NOT KNOW HOW TO USE THE COMPUTER / INTERNET . Guess what I found out, a sea weed called KELP would heal my condition. I then found out where to the kelp and guess what it cost only P12.00. The encyclopedia said that Kelp makes the are where th bacteria stick to be slipery , thus allowing the would in the ulcer area to heal, since the bacteria stick on like when you walk through grass, you come out with sticky stuff. I took it with water and fixed my sick diet. I also used activated charcoal tablets to sort out the balloon stomach I had. I stopped all medications for the H.pylori. when a food reation came up I would insist on a drip, then the stomach stops. I did that with private and govt clinics. no meds for running stomach or vomiting. when it started, I revisited what i ate, then eliminate from my diet.
    I got it myself from a pharmacy from the vitamin section and in two weeks I was able to eat and sleep through the night with out the watery stools. Finally my landlord also got some sleep and most of all my husband who was my fiancee then, started sleeping and eating without the worry of the girlfriend throwing up all the goodies. What kelp does is that it makes the ulcer walls to be slippery and the ulcer causing bacteria, can not stick and in the same process the wound heals and the bacteria a have nothing to feed on and eventually die.
    I now manage my health with herbs and water, and watch what I eat. I confess as all who believe and have proof that toxic drugs have minimal benefit with high cost & side effects for the body. Even if you have the money for the fancy expensive meds, your body does not have the ability to survive the distruction from the toxis.
    Whereas herbs have high benefits for the whole body and almost no negative side effect. It does teach me that people before us lived long health lives because there where no pharmaceuticals driving profit instead of health. I can’t imagine where I would be if it was not for the herbs our ancestors used.
    This is something the whole family can afford, and use but because herbs have permanent healing properties, no drug company will promote their powerful gifts from God. Pharmaceuticals are sponsoring doctor’s schools/ universities/ researches with the aim of promoting one of their creations – toxic drugs.
    Out breaks of any kind of disease come along with a drug, why not a herb if indeed it is with the interest of people’s health at heart. I am currently managing holistically my HIV and Aids illness with herbs. I won’t change that. The route I have taken has given me too many reasons why it indeed works and I notice why herbs as seen as inferior when infact they are supreme quality and effectiveness.

    I observed that certain foods gave me the very same condition I have sorted out. I slowly eliminated each food when it reacted until I got a book called “Eat riht for your type” by Dr. Peter D’ Adamo. I read that book night and day and focused only on my blood type, luck my husband is O+ too so the changin th diet was not a problem.

    I have bought about 4 of those Books and now i dont have one. I gave them to some friends who were sick and they got satisfactory results.

    It’s an observation from me based on my experiences ” Food and herbs play a vital role in good health, so in my opinion instead of arv to manage HIV+ DIAGNOSIS and AIDS, people get a balance diet education and support”. I always wonder if I was unable to read, what could have happened to me? It pays to know how to read.

  5. Sabine Kalitzkus said

    After 25 years of never-ending eating disorders and having read hundreds of “How to eat” books (an eating disorder in itself), one day I decided to never read such a book again. My eating disorders stopped overnight and never came back.

    Six or seven years ago D’Adamo’s book crossed my path. It was the first of all those books that really made sense. I tried it for some time. The results were amazing — bodily and mentally. I never felt better. Then I switched back to my “normal” food to see the difference. Things became worse again. Since then I try to follow his recommendations for my blood type to at least 90%.

    This “program” is mainly about foreign proteins, which — as we all know — have to be eliminated by the body, which means stress. To avoid this kind of extra stress, just avoid food which contains proteins your body regards as foreign.

    Every blood type has special properties by nature. Type 0 for example always produces too much stomach acid. For those people it’s a good idea to drink a lot of beverages which contain carbonic acid, because carbonic acid consumes stomach acid.

    For type A it’s the very opposite. Type A always produces too little stomach acid. Thus they should avoid carbonic acid and food that needs a lot of stomach acid to digest, like for example red meat.

    You’ll find all about this idea on D’Adamo’s website:

    There’s a healthy caveat though:

    “The statements made on our websites have not been evaluated by the FDA (U.S. Food & Drug Administration).”

    I couldn’t think of any stronger recommendation for this idea…

    • Henry Bauer said

      Sabine: A few months ago I heard a talk by Colin Campbell, author of “The China Study”. He makes a strong case that too much animal protein, esepcially casein, increases the risk of chronic ailments including cancer, and that diets that avoid such protein can even reverse those ailments, at least sometimes .

      • Sabine Kalitzkus said


        There are thousands of critics who make strong cases against this idea, as is common with all ideas that dismiss mainstream. D’Adamo collected responses to some of those people on his website:

        You will certainly find, that this kind of critic sounds all too familiar to our ears. You will even find yourself chuckling.

        Before convincing the public not to make their own experiences, those critics should find out themselves, what they are talking about.

  6. Sabine Kalitzkus said


    There’s another point worth mentioning re Colin Campbell’s findings:

    Cancers are more frequent among people with blood type A than among other groups. Type A should (among other things) avoid red meat, cow milk, dairies (except fermented ones like yoghurt or kefir), because those proteins resemble blood type 0, against which type A has to build strong antibodies, just to stay alive.

    The antibodies against the other blood groups are the strongest antibodies in our bodies.

    It seems logical that type A-people, who “poisoned” their bodies with such a non-beneficial nutrition for a long time, begin to develop chronical illnesses like cancer.

    Once they stop eating the wrong food, their bodies can recover and regain health — “at least sometimes”, as you said. “Sometimes” applies to people with type A, because the kind of proteins you mentioned are poisonous for them.

    Type 0 on the contrary needs a lot of red meat to remain healthy and strong. They would suffer, they would become weak and sick if they avoided it, as interested industries advise them to increase their profit generated by colesterol-decreasing drugs.

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